His Family Is Calling Me A MONSTER For Lying About Having Kids To Him

[00:00:02] [SPEAKER_00] Hey Waffle Gang, I do hope you are well. My name is Mark and today we're checking out some more Reddit Stories. And if you do love a Reddit Story, why not consider? Get a like, subscribe, maybe that notification bell too. And let's crack on with today's first story. Much love guys. Now, quick trigger warning before we do get into this story that it contains fertility shaming. So if you do want to skip the story, please feel free to do so. Timestamps are always down in the description

[00:00:30] [SPEAKER_00] along the timeline below. Thank you. So today's first story comes from QuirkyBad7653 and it says, am I the asshole for lying to my partner about having kids and laughing about it? This story started back in 2023 but has an update this year as well. It starts. So I recently became engaged to my 34 female partner, 35 male. We met on a dating app three years ago and hit it off from the start.

[00:00:56] [SPEAKER_00] Five years ago, I got one of my fallopian tubes removed. I've known I don't want to give birth since I was 15 years old and have never changed my mind. I always said that if a child came into my life, I'd love it, but I'm not actively seeking that out. On my dating profile, it explicitly states, child free and infertile, verbatim. At the beginning of our relationship, my now fiance regularly referenced other things I put in my profile. So I'd assumed he'd read that part

[00:01:23] [SPEAKER_00] and kids never really came up in other convos. Well, last night, he mentioned that I should consider stopping my birth control since we are now engaged and given our ages, we should start trying for kids. I honestly thought he was joking and laughed. He got frustrated and asked me why I thought it was funny. And I reminded him that the second line of my dating profile said was ostensibly infertile. He was shocked and called me a liar. I happened to remember that I sent a screenshot of my dating profile to a friend for review around that time and pulled up the old

[00:01:53] [SPEAKER_00] convo with her to show him the time and date and that indeed it stated I was child free. I told him I had my tubes taken out so there was no chance of me getting pregnant without outside help. IVF is technically still an option, but I don't want to put my body through that. He stormed out and his mom called me crying that I've ruined his life. His sister sent me a long message about how getting my tubes removed should be illegal and how I'm a monster for stringing my fiance along. To be honest, his family never really like me because they think I'm beneath him.

[00:02:23] [SPEAKER_00] My cousin told me it's because I'm fat. True, but some also pretty active. Regular walks with my dog, hiking, biking, swimming, paddle boarding, and a little snowshoeing. None of which my fiance does with me. And a career woman in a male dominated field. Plus, we share the household labor 50-50 and I make more money than he does. Because of this, I don't take what they say too seriously, but I'm starting to feel bad. His family believes I stole years of his life and ruined future chances

[00:02:51] [SPEAKER_00] of being a father by lying about my fertility status. He asked for space when he stormed out, so I haven't reached out to him. I do love him, but I'm starting to have serious second thoughts given his family's reactions. I realize now that we should have talked about this before, but am I the arsehole for how I handled the situation? I mean, OP didn't hide anything. OP said it was literally written on a dating profile from day one. Child-free and infertile. That's

[00:03:18] [SPEAKER_00] about as upfront as you can get, right? So the issue is either he didn't read it, he didn't take it seriously, or what we see in a lot of these stories, he assumed she's going to change her mind later. And that's not a misunderstanding, that's an assumption. Which is particularly wild, especially when the dating profile said infertile as well. And it's always how people behave during an argument, which is wild in itself. Instead of having, you know, a conversation, he storms out and

[00:03:45] [SPEAKER_00] suddenly his whole family is fucking involved, calling her a monster and saying she ruined his life. I do find it kind of weird that in three years that there's never been a discussion around this at all or anything, especially as they got engaged. I mean, I get it. It's clear that on the profile that OP said they were child-free and infertile, but I would have thought, you know, something may have popped up like a little clue or something during conversation rather than on this profile.

[00:04:11] [SPEAKER_00] A commenter says, info, how in the world did this never come up in the three years of dating? Did people not talk about having kids, future goals, etc? OP says I never brought it up because I thought it was already established. We met on Tinder and it was the second line in my profile. Further down on my profile, I mentioned that I don't really like the texture of tomatoes, and he's brought it up a few times without me saying anything aside from it being on my profile. Plus, our first date, he asked some good clarification questions about my profile,

[00:04:40] [SPEAKER_00] implying to me that he'd read it all. I guess I'd made the bad assumption that since he didn't bring it up, it wasn't an issue. A commenter says, lol, not the arsehole. I mean, this probably should have been a conversation before you all got engaged, and I'm genuinely surprised it never came up again. But if dude can't read and he was referencing other things on your profile, that's on him. Although, this is probably going to end your relationship. Just pointing out that this is probably a deal breaker for both of you, so it's probably a good idea to get your affairs in

[00:05:08] [SPEAKER_00] order. Another commenter says, not the arsehole. Your profile stated it. Fine. He missed it. One of the most important things you talk about while dating is future together. If you share the same dreams, or at least if they're compatible, then the relationship moves along. If it is something important that will require the collaboration of your partner, you 100% talk about it. You don't necessarily bring up what you don't want, especially if not possible. So, if he wanted children, it's on him to bring it on and not assume you're okay with it. That children conversation is

[00:05:38] [SPEAKER_00] critical and complex. If you want children, you don't only need to discuss it if it is a shared dream. If so, you then have to discuss how many, how you're going to raise them, parenting approaches, distribution of responsibilities, education, the list goes on. It is not one conversation, but a series of. So, he missed it on your profile. Then he went into the relationship assuming you wanted children, in the same number as he wanted. That you share the same parenting principles.

[00:06:07] [SPEAKER_00] Baby said, oh wow, I hadn't even thought about all that. You're absolutely right. We talked about future, but mostly about careers and lifestyle goals. Travel, housing, investment type stuff. He never mentioned kids or family goals, and I never really thought to bring up, hey, just a random thought. I don't want to, or I'm capable of getting pregnant. Just for your information. Ugh, I feel really naive right now for not thinking about all this. Thanks for your insight. And one more comment who says, how you both go through three years in a relationship and the

[00:06:37] [SPEAKER_00] kids conversation never came up. How do you both get engaged and then talk about the future together? At the end of the day, not the arsehole for you and for the fiance. Both of you were wrong for not talking about this sooner. You had it on your profile. Seriously. You think that is all that's necessary. Also him just ask you to stop birth control without even asking if that's what you wanted. You guys really should think about this marriage. You lack communication about important things. Also, maybe you're not so compatible if he really wants kids in his life and you're a child

[00:07:07] [SPEAKER_00] free person. The only arseholes in this are his family who took the opportunity to trash you. Again. And believe me, if you keep going together, they will use this for eternity. But Opie comes in with a first update a short time after that one, the same month and says, so my fiance came home this morning and I asked him if he wanted to talk. He said there was nothing left to talk about. I asked if he wanted the ring back and he got angry. I've never seen him like this and

[00:07:34] [SPEAKER_00] I tried to speak calmly to him, but he was just yelling about how I was giving up and wouldn't even talk to him. I reminded him that I'd asked if he wanted to talk and he said no. To which he responded that he didn't think I'd go all crazy over a disagreement. This was a huge wake up call for me. I asked him why I'd never brought up kids beforehand and he said because he knew I would get all weird about it. I tried to get him to clarify but he just kept saying he couldn't talk to me when I was like

[00:07:59] [SPEAKER_00] this. I swear I never raised my voice and tried to speak calmly the entire time. I told him I can't have kids nor do I want any. I don't want to give birth. That seems like a deal breaker for him and his family. He said his family had nothing to do with this and I asked why he told him then. He said because he was hoping they'd talk sense into me. I told him I was ending the relationship and staying with my dad for the time being. This didn't go over well. I'm still kind of shaking.

[00:08:27] [SPEAKER_00] As I was leaving I asked him how long he's wanted kids and he admitted he never thought about it but he knew I didn't want any. But now that we're engaged it wasn't just about me. He had a say in children. I told him I physically could not get pregnant without IVF and asked him how he expected that to work. He responded that I didn't know what I was talking about. I left after that because I just didn't have the energy to try and convince him and I didn't want to further agitate him.

[00:08:57] [SPEAKER_00] When I told my dad everything he was furious. Apparently when my fiance spoke to him about proposing he did not ask permission. Both my dad and I are opposed to that tradition. Just basically letting my dad know his plans. My dad asked him if he was okay never having kids as I had my tubes removed. My dad says he specifically brought up my surgery and the impossibility of natural pregnancy. My fiance told my dad that it'd always be my decision. I'm thankful this happened before we

[00:09:24] [SPEAKER_00] started any of the wedding planning but it feels like I swallowed a boulder. I know I need to be more adamant in the future about my stance on kids and I promise I'll have these discussions with future partners openly and from the start. I blocked his family from messaging me after they added me to a group message and started throwing bible verses at me and saying that I'm a defective woman for not wanting kids. I don't have the energy right now to be petty so I just block them. My dad is going to help me move my stuff the next couple of days.

[00:09:52] [SPEAKER_00] I need to talk to the landlord and figure out the lease. I'm financially stable enough to pay most of the fees I think but I doubt my now ex-fiance can afford the rent on his own. The only text I received from him just said you'll regret this. I don't believe this is meant as a threat but I'm being cautious just in case. Thank you all for the feedback. It was helpful to understand where I went wrong. This was my first long-term relationship and I fucked up a lot of the

[00:10:17] [SPEAKER_00] communication but I know it's not just on me. I tend to be the kind of person that doesn't like to rehash things if I feel like we're on the same page but with huge decisions like this reiterating is necessary and people are allowed to change their minds which means rehashing is necessary. So the next update, the final update, came two and a half years later and says hi but I completely forgot about this account until recently and figured I'd give an update since the story got both crazier and

[00:10:44] [SPEAKER_00] then a bit anticlimactic. Then a few people have asked. I'm going to give fake names so it's easier. Ex-fiance is Josh, his sister will be Jill. Moving out was pretty easy. Josh wasn't around but I did find a few of my things in odd places that I suspect was intentional to make me leave them behind. It was quiet for about a week but then I got called into an impromptu work meeting. My company is fairly small and I'm in the upper level of the admin team so it's not totally uncommon to get

[00:11:12] [SPEAKER_00] meetings with the two owners, a married couple. When I logged on it turned out to be a coaching convo to address my use of company resources for personal matters. Apparently Jill had found the company phone number and had been calling the number attempting to get through to me or my supervisor but the third party company we used to manage that phone number didn't have my contact or even really know who I was because my position isn't client facing. I'm usually pretty good under

[00:11:37] [SPEAKER_00] pressure but I really didn't want to lose my job so I ended up crying and spitting the whole story to my bosses. Turns out they're both intentionally child free as well and were incredibly supportive. One of them is a retired navy and he asked multiple times if he should pay them a personal visit but his wife just rolled her eyes and told him that he would be plan x after all the others failed. Lol. Long story short I ended up finding an attorney who helped me navigate a protective order. Jill didn't handle this well and tried to sue me for damages with Josh and their mom.

[00:12:08] [SPEAKER_00] It took a year to actually make it to court and to no one's surprise the suit was dismissed. The judge was very displeased by the waste of court resources. I was granted a restraining order for Josh, Jill and their mom after I presented the evidence of harassment as well as a notarized statement from my company. We also had recordings from the company phone calls but the judge didn't need them apparently. I blocked all of them and have no idea what's happening with them now but

[00:12:33] [SPEAKER_00] they have thankfully left me alone. My dad was really happy to have me as a roommate. I think he'd been lonely lol so I've stayed with him and split his bills. My dog has always loved my dad so she's in heaven. I haven't really been dating but I've been taking mixed martial arts classes recently and I just finished a year of ice skating classes. I'm enjoying having some more free time and perfectly content in being single right now. I know now that there was a lot of things I let slide about Josh and his family

[00:13:00] [SPEAKER_00] that should have been deal breakers and I think I would have figured it out sooner than later but I'm still trying to relearn to trust myself. Until then I'm not in any hurry to date anyone new. Thank you to everyone who commented and offered perspective. It really helped. My best friend and her husband had a fun time going through them all with me. Rob Claver says to this story, Josh was told by dad that OP was clinically infertile then went up to OP to say I want to put

[00:13:26] [SPEAKER_00] a baby in you. I guess there's a chance he's fucking stupid but maybe he just wanted to blow up the relationship and went maximum nuclear because he's an arsehole. I'm glad OP is happy in a witch era living with her dog and dad. Now the commenter says you could tell that he knew and was playing dumb from his first reaction. The doubling down and acting like she deceived him for years was the biggest gaslighting event since yesterday's posts. Also I feel like the sister is the biggest arsehole

[00:13:53] [SPEAKER_00] because she got herself involved in something that's not her business. Hepcorn replies saying I'm with you. Most people would see this as him just being a giant dummy but I think he was also being malicious. She clearly stated she didn't want to get pregnant and all he thought was I will successfully coerce her eventually because he doesn't care about her bodily autonomy. It's an extremely common complaint in child-free spaces. People who want children date a child-free person while hiding that they want children and then five years into it they're like what do you mean you

[00:14:23] [SPEAKER_00] won't give me a child? I thought you loved me. Why wouldn't you change your mind? And one more comment from Charlotte Lucas who says oh he really thought he had her and he lost his shit when he realized it wasn't ever going to be something he could twist her arm over. He ignored everything she ever said openly about not wanting kids and spent how many years never asking about birth control while presumably hitting it raw. He doesn't get to pretend he was led on when he's

[00:14:48] [SPEAKER_00] the one being deceitful about his expectations. There's no way to phrase something differently to get through to someone who's refusing to listen to anything you say in the first place. But now I'm going to turn this one to you guys. What do you guys make of this situation? Let us know your thoughts down in the comments below and let's move on to another story. Now our next story comes from a throwaway account from the relationship advice subreddit and says

[00:15:15] [SPEAKER_00] my 25 male wife 24 female is traveling alone with another man. This feels weird to type out. My 25 male wife 24 female is going on holiday with another guy. I feel like there's a 0% chance she's cheating on me. I don't think she would ever do that but I just hate the way it's making me feel. We've been married for a few years now. Basically my wife has a new male co-worker that she has really

[00:15:43] [SPEAKER_00] enjoyed lately. That's great I'm all for new friends regardless of their gender. We haven't really had a relationship with insecurity about friendships of another gender. I have friends that are girls she has friends that are guys it's basically always worked for us. Anyway my wife and this guy have become closer over the past few months that they've worked together. They snap and send each other memes all the time. It feels like half the time I'm talking to her that she's really just

[00:16:08] [SPEAKER_00] reacting to these messages. They've also hung out a lot after work going to get drinks and stuff often late into the night. I typically don't receive an invite. My wife just goes. She doesn't do so secretly. She texts me letting me know her plans but it's a little frustrating that she just goes out without inviting me and often last minute. Especially knowing that we haven't spent much quality time together in a few weeks. More recently my wife and this guy have recently been talking about this

[00:16:36] [SPEAKER_00] cool hike that they want to go on. The only problem is that it'll be an overnight trip that they go on. Just the two of them. I'm bothered by this. I know you can travel with platonic friendships but I can't help but feel bothered. I really don't believe she would cheat on me. I just feel like I've been moved to second place by my wife as she goes off and has fun with someone she enjoys more. Meanwhile I'm just a guy who does chores, comforts and supports. It also doesn't help that I've only

[00:17:02] [SPEAKER_00] interacted with this guy a few times and usually for not very long so I don't really know him that well. How do I handle this situation? I want to be honest and communicate how I'm feeling but I don't want to come off as insecure by telling my wife what she can and can't do. I also know that she's looking forward to this trip and I don't want to take that away from her. I feel like I'd be selfish to do so in this situation. If I should just let them go what do I do with what I'm feeling?

[00:17:28] [SPEAKER_00] I'd appreciate any help reddit. I'm not sure what I expect. But for me in this there's platonic friendships and then there's constantly messaging with another guy late nights out without inviting a husband, prioritizing the time that you have with him over your own marriage and now an overnight trip with just the two of them. At some point it stops being just a friendship and starts looking like more emotional, more emotional intimacy that's crossing boundaries and even if there's no physical

[00:17:55] [SPEAKER_00] cheating at this point this is already towing the line of an emotional affair or it even is an emotional affair at this moment. If I was OP's partner in this doing this to OP I would feel awkward as shit about it and feel that this has gone too far it's not quite right. Even if I was the wife's friend in this I would feel like that is awkward in itself. I don't know if that's just me in that but you have these late nights out with OP's partner knowing that she's married etc and then

[00:18:21] [SPEAKER_00] you're planning an overnight trip. I don't know that might be just beyond that one but holy moly. A commenter says to OP call me crazy but perhaps bring up the fact that you prefer she doesn't have overnight dates with other men. Wild concept. OP says yeah it doesn't sound crazy at all reading it from someone else. Another commenter says so they're sleeping in the same tent slash room on this hiking trip. This isn't appropriate especially since you haven't really met the guy. Has she

[00:18:47] [SPEAKER_00] really never invited you? Why not invite him for a meal or a drink at the house with you around? I think your wife is being purposely evasive. Most women know that openness and transparency is important when you're dealing with friends of the opposite sex and your partner and this doesn't feel like she's doing that. It might not be physical but it does feel like an emotional affair. OP says it's not that I've never been invited but I haven't been in a while. I hung out with him once. I was invited one other time but I was busy and couldn't that evening but

[00:19:15] [SPEAKER_00] that's about the extent. I do agree that maybe it's more emotional. A commenter says OP you need to tell her your boundary is not being alone one-on-one in private areas with another of the opposite sex. Assuming this guy is straight. That's a perfectly reasonable boundary. I think it's great if my husband has female friendships in public areas and at work. Heck he's welcome to grab a coffee with a female friend one-on-one or go to a public restaurant etc. But crossing into a private

[00:19:42] [SPEAKER_00] area, apartment, hotel, campsite, just one-on-one is definitely a red flag. Others are making some massive jumps but you need to figure out if this guy is straight first and then ask your wife honestly how you'd feel if you did that with another woman and establish some boundaries. She may have cheated but that's for you to find out. If not at the very least an emotional boundary was crossed and you two need to communicate. OP says yeah I think this is very reasonable thank you.

[00:20:08] [SPEAKER_00] I'm gonna have a conversation about boundaries with her. A commenter says I'm quite certain that's what every other husband or wife that has been cheated on thought. That they're so loyal and they love me right? Yeah man it's 100% emotional at the very least and if it hasn't gone physical yet it will with this camping trip. A commenter says well then what do I do? I know that I have to talk to her and figure it out but if she's cheating or planning to cheat man what do I do then? A commenter says

[00:20:35] [SPEAKER_00] well since there is 0% chance she won't cheat according to you then what's the issue bud? OP says I mean you check make me I guess. Maybe not 0%. Even if not cheating it feels pretty awful that she's doing these things with someone else and not spending as much time with me. So OP comes in one and a half years later and says it's been like one and a half years since I posted. A lot of people considered me a troll or making stuff up at first. Here's the current update and where things currently stand.

[00:21:03] [SPEAKER_00] It's gonna be long and things aren't fully resolved and I'd love some more advice. I'm really having a difficult time processing how I feel and what to do. I spoke with my wife about the situation regarding camping with her co-worker. She immediately started crying at the time when we talked. I was trying to be empathetic. I know she didn't want to miss out on a friendship. She kept saying things like I hate that you guys don't get along. However she did apologize and back out of the trip.

[00:21:29] [SPEAKER_00] Things were better for a short period but then they began hanging out at a similar frequency. We had some conversations about it but I knew the guy would be moving soon and thought things might start to resolve afterwards. The next couple of months were difficult. I still felt under prioritized and like my concerns weren't really heard. She talked about visiting him after he moved and I mentioned my concerns for that and she never ended up visiting. This seemed to cause a sort of falling out between them. My wife then changed perspectives and felt she was a victim of this co-worker and

[00:21:59] [SPEAKER_00] that he was treating her weirdly by pursuing her. She ended up burning some stuff that he gave to her including a letter that he had sent after the move. She gets defensive still when this guy comes up in conversation and it's impossible to talk about it. Anyway conversation slash connection with him dies down. In the meantime wife has another weird connection with a guy that feels too long to include on this specific post. This just adds fuel to the fire and I continue to feel underappreciated

[00:22:25] [SPEAKER_00] and uncared for. Conversations with my wife around the subject are still touchy. After some time I finally allow myself to feel my feelings and it eats at me. I eventually wake up at 3am stressed and can't go back to sleep. I finally break and look at her messages with the old co-worker. Obviously there are a ton of messages, lots of selfies they sent back and forth, nothing explicit, a sort of flirty vibe to them and a lot of how much they appreciate each other and then text much later in the night that I

[00:22:53] [SPEAKER_00] thought about. Let me know when you're home safe at like 4am. Talk after our conversations of potential future camping trips together and travel and then referring to a late night they were together at a state park as their not camping trip. My wife noted having dirt all over her clothes and the co-worker said, well what'd you expect when we wrestled? And then further he said, I wish I would have held you tightly for longer instead of getting angry. Then a text he mentioned describing their night

[00:23:21] [SPEAKER_00] to a co-worker and the co-worker being surprised that they didn't fuck. I know this is a lot and even typing it out I sort of feel like an idiot. It's just hard for me to imagine a world without her at this point. Sometimes it seems like she really likes and appreciates me. Other times I feel myself questioning if she regrets marrying me altogether. Sometimes I wonder if it's possible for her to be naive enough to not understand my concerns. How can I communicate so she understands

[00:23:46] [SPEAKER_00] my concerns? I want her to know that it's hurtful. How do I get her to change and apologize? So a commenter says to OP, why the fuck are you tolerating this? Dump her and move on. OP says, it just doesn't feel quite that easy I guess. Like we've been together so long, it's just hard to imagine it differently. The commenter says, hey homie, let me ask you a few questions. Are you happy with feeling undervalued and underappreciated by your partner? If you had a similar relationship with a

[00:24:14] [SPEAKER_00] female, do you think she would give you the same grace you were providing her? Are you comfortable knowing your partner is out camping and wrestling with another dude? I'd imagine all the answers to the above are no. If you don't want to break things off, tell her, hey me and one of my female friends are going to go camping for a few days, just me and her, and see how she reacts to that. I'd be surprised if she didn't lose a fucking mind. When that happens, you already know that the relationship between her and this dude isn't kosher. She would likely equate what you're asking to do with what she's

[00:24:43] [SPEAKER_00] already doing, which is probably fucking around on you. I'd give the ultimatum. You either cut this shit with all these male friends you're out wrestling in the dirt with, or you get lost. If she pulls this shit again, it's done and over with. The tears are a manipulation tactic in my honest opinion. She knows getting upset is going to cause you to pump the brakes and it's being used against you. She's using it so you and her cannot have an open and honest conversation about your feelings and

[00:25:08] [SPEAKER_00] also about the situation itself. Fuck that noise. You are not hurting her. She is hurting herself and your relationship. Don't get caught up in the, what if I'm wrong, you're being treated poorly. You're waking up at 3am stressed the fuck out. You don't deserve to live like that. Treat yourself better and either get her to prioritize your relationship slash you or get fucking lost. Life is too short to waste on it being mistreated by someone you want to love, appreciate and value you for you.

[00:25:38] [SPEAKER_00] Hope you responded saying thank you for the long and thoughtful comments. I truly appreciate it. I'm still struggling with what I want to do, but I definitely am going to be thinking about your comments. I know I need to respect myself more. I just wish I could do both. As in respect myself and fix the marriage somehow. Commodore says she knew what she was doing. She knew what was going to happen on that camping trip. Don't let her convince you she was being manipulated. That's ridiculous and now conveniently there's another man filling the emotional affair void. I'm sorry my

[00:26:06] [SPEAKER_00] friend, but she keeps searching for the excitement and attention of other men. You're safe and comfortable and she has very little respect for you and your marriage. Hope you reply saying, but does that mean it has to end? Like is there no other solution? Commodore says confront her about her clear and unmistakable infidelity. What she was doing is cheating. She had an emotional affair with him that was physical to her point and she knew exactly what she was doing. Lied to you consistently, gaslighted you to make you feel controlling and is now trying to do it again with

[00:26:35] [SPEAKER_00] another co-worker. Tell her you're tired of being her second choice in your marriage and if her choice is to pursue other men and abandon you, she can do it as a single woman alone without you to support her. Hope says I know you're right. It makes me feel horrendous. I feel like I let myself believe things aren't as bad as they were. I just wish it could work out. Like things used to be good. Commodore says you're in denial and it's painfully obvious. She doesn't even need to

[00:27:01] [SPEAKER_00] gaslight you because you're already doing it to yourself. It's clear she's been cheating on you, at least on an emotional level, and yet you refuse to see it. You're letting yourself be walked over and I wouldn't be surprised if she and her affair partners have been laughing at your expense. What more do you need to wake up? Will you still be in denial when she gets pregnant by someone else, gives you an STD or you catch up with another man? Her reaction after being rejected by a so-called friend wasn't the reaction of someone losing a friend. It was the reaction of someone getting

[00:27:29] [SPEAKER_00] rejected by a lover, even if he knew she wasn't worth it. So why can't you see that? You need to start therapy, get tested for STDs and above all, start having some self-respect. Hope you're replied saying, it's just hard to believe. Like I just used to feel like I knew her so well. Like she would never do anything like this and I just don't know what to do with it all now. Like I know these are things to do, but it just doesn't feel so simple. So a month later, OP comes in again and says,

[00:27:55] [SPEAKER_00] my previous post talks about an emotional and possible physical affair. I was in too much denial and let it slip right under my nose in so many ways. It was a doormat and I'm trying not to be that anymore. You can see some of the old posts on my profile too. And yes, it's the one with the camping trip she wanted to take alone with another guy. I don't know if I really have a satisfying update yet, but people have asked for updates and it's been about a month. I did confront her. We went through a lot of the messages. She wasn't heated or defensive like I expected. She's apologetic and

[00:28:24] [SPEAKER_00] said she was sorry. We've had a few couples counseling sessions since then. She claims nothing physical ever happened. She had excuses for many of the texts and what they said, explanations to make them sound less damning, but she had a hard time explaining some of the others in a way that's satisfying. I'll be honest. She apologized the first time we talked, but since then she's deflected a lot. There was a lot of blaming other people in circumstances. She was afraid she would lose her

[00:28:49] [SPEAKER_00] job or afraid how it impacts something or she's this way because of some past trauma. Only burn things because her friend wanted to, etc. I need her to own her part of it more. She denied ever having romantic feelings from at all. I pointed out things that were intimate and she did agree that it was intimate, but then immediately tried to justify why the intimacy occurred. Things just don't really seem to add up. She keeps telling me she loves me, but how could she do this? I've been a wreck. I'm

[00:29:18] [SPEAKER_00] struggling to function at work and have a productive life. I really just want to crawl into a hole. I'm exhausted. I'm able to see friends and enjoy some hobbies. I have been able to forget in the moment, but the pain comes rushing back as soon as it's over. My self-esteem has been shot and I can't stop feeling like I need to always process and figure it out. She's been out of town for a week and is back soon. I spiraled a lot, but I've also had a really good week in other ways. I'm dreading her

[00:29:45] [SPEAKER_00] coming home. Some of that is dreading having to go through this stuff more, but I think a lot of it is just dreading her in general right now. I don't feel any joy for seeing her right now. I just feel like I'm living in a haze. None of it feels real to be honest. I'm somehow trying to put one foot in front of the other. I feel like so much of it is me looking for people to tell me what to do, which is not what I need. I need to make a decision for me. I'm leaning towards leaving right now. I've talked

[00:30:12] [SPEAKER_00] with a few friends and it's been helpful and they have made me really ask the question, what am I getting out of this relationship? And right now, I can't think of much. I'm not sure if I'm hurt, so I'm seeing things from the past negativity or if the scales have been removed from my eyes. I'm seeing more and more of how much I've sacrificed for her and seeing how she's really not that good of a person, especially not in her interactions with me. But I keep getting stuck and how I'd feel like a bad person for leaving and how I would be hurting her. I'm trying to get

[00:30:39] [SPEAKER_00] that out of my head because I shouldn't be concerned with her. I should be concerned with me. Well, Reddit, that's my update. Let me know if you can fix me. So we have a couple more comments and then we have the final update. So first comment I said, Dear OP, do you have children? I can't remember the details of your story. If you don't, I would recommend separating temporarily. Distance would do you good and would allow you to see things more clearly? Whether or not they've been intimate is kind of beside the point.

[00:31:07] [SPEAKER_00] At the very least, this is an emotional affair. You don't behave like this if you're in a relationship. That is just common sense. OP says no children, so that makes things a bit less complicated. The commenter says, this is not a normal or a happy marriage. Read this sentence over and over until it sinks in. Your wife's relationship with this man is so over the line. I don't care what platitude she offered. I honestly don't trust a single word out of her mouth. I wouldn't if I were you either. You can't spin the messages. The more you listen to her

[00:31:36] [SPEAKER_00] explanations, the more you're going to further doubt yourself. You've been asking Reddit for advice. It looks like for years on this topic. Please separate and ideally leave your wife. To me, you do not have a strong enough relationship to warrant your marriage, at least a happy marriage. You both may love each other, but love is not enough. Remember that actions speak much louder. Take ownership of this narrative. This is your life. Stand up for your happiness and your peace of mind.

[00:32:01] [SPEAKER_00] OP says thanks. I agree. I'm making some bigger moves next week and just making perfectly sure of everything. I'd be surprised if we're still together at all by 2025, but I appreciate the encouragement. I'm doing my best not to care about the others and be strong for myself. I have doubts, but they're dwindling more and more every day. Someone says has OP received therapy to deal with the issues he has? And OP says, I've been seeing a therapist. It's been very helpful for me to have a safe place to process. And friends I've talked with have been great at validating and understanding

[00:32:30] [SPEAKER_00] so far. And you're right about salvaging the relationship being the doubt. Some moments, things can still feel normal and even nice, but it never lasts. So it was one and a half years later that OP comes in with what was titled their final update and says, It's been a while since last updating everyone on my story. Not sure who really cares or wants to know, but I feel like someone will see this and hopefully it will give them hope or encouragement or at the very least sate some of their curiosity.

[00:32:58] [SPEAKER_00] Basically, the story began with my wife forming an inappropriate relationship with a co-worker. I reached a boiling point when he asked her to go camping, just the two of them at the time, that I wouldn't be available to join. This was the story behind my first post. Long story short, she didn't go camping after a long talk with her. Things seemed to progress to be a little better from there. Read, I was in denial. However, I reached another point of feeling insane that I read

[00:33:24] [SPEAKER_00] all her texts back and forth with this guy. This was just more and clearer evidence of infidelity with this guy, which is basically where the Reddit post history ends off. After that, we did therapy together and individually. Had lots of talks about what happened and where to go from there, about why she felt the need to go outside our marriage. More information came out and my wife was never able to fully meet what my needs were. We fought, we argued and we tried different

[00:33:50] [SPEAKER_00] therapists. Unsurprising to many of you, things never turned out for the better. The two things I needed from her to start off were accountability and accepting new boundaries. She was unable to take accountability. She was always blaming someone or something else for what happened. There were times where it seemed like we were making progress, but then it got to a point where she would take almost no accountability. Suddenly, she never did anything wrong. Instead, she argued that she was just a victim of sexual harassment, which then turned into her blaming me for not

[00:34:20] [SPEAKER_00] supporting her when she was a victim and how she worried I wouldn't be able to support her in the future if something went wrong, which gave me a moment of feeling a little crazy. But I was able to shake out of it. As far as boundaries goes, we had lots of talks about her friendships and what they needed to look like. I needed her to greatly reduce her friendships with guys and prioritize our relationship. There was another male friend in particular that caused some issues during this time. When we talked about it, she often seemed agreeable and understanding, but behavior never seemed to

[00:34:48] [SPEAKER_00] really change. Two things in particular were bigger issues that popped up during this time. One involved my birthday, when we both already had the day off. She had let me know beforehand that she had a lot of work she had to do that morning and afternoon and wouldn't see me much until my birthday dinner that evening. Well, guess who spent multiple hours with that morning into the afternoon? This new male friend. She showed up at home to me, packed up and ready to go out and do some

[00:35:13] [SPEAKER_00] stuff for the day. My ex-wife immediately looked as though she knew she messed up and did profusely apologize. She even stated, I don't know why I keep hurting you. The next event was when she really wanted to go to a concert with the same guy. Just the two of them in another city. Déjà vu much? She ended up not going after multiple conversations and after I told her, I wasn't okay with it. But she was not at all happy about it. There is a world where I think forgiveness could have occurred and where I

[00:35:41] [SPEAKER_00] think relationships heal after infidelity. But that is not my story. Eventually, I was able to come to my senses. It took a lot longer and more suffering than it should have, but I'm now divorced, which has been a big mishmash of emotions. Some days I feel deeply lonely and sad. Other days I feel optimistic, hopeful and at peace. Honestly, I never hated my ex-wife and really, I still don't. I'm still very angry and hurt by what happened, but I never really hated her. And maybe that's naive of me.

[00:36:09] [SPEAKER_00] The other thing that really motivated me to leave was that I was able to love myself and choose what I needed for me. I feel very far away from the person that I was when this first started. I feel a little more confident and free than I have in a very long time. I'm still trying to use this current time to find myself and probably will for a while. Not looking to date or anything at the moment. Not sure if marriage or a long-term relationship is ever going to be on the table

[00:36:34] [SPEAKER_00] for me again, which I think I'm oddly okay with. So much of my identity was in my marriage and being a good partner. It's hard to remember who I was before this and who I am apart from that at times. So that's what I'm discovering now. Plenty of other fighting and weird little stories in the past year or two as well, but that's it for now. Thank you to all redditors who were helpful and gave their advice. I was almost entirely saying the same thing, even though some of you were much nicer about it

[00:37:00] [SPEAKER_00] than others of course, but I'm not going to complain. I genuinely think explicitly calling me out helped me wake up some. My family and friends have been overall very supportive and made the transition as easy for me as possible. My mom had a bit of a freak out about the divorce and sent me lots of long texts. And my prior best friend is maybe someone I might cut out. He was supportive at first. He knew more than anyone what was going on, but he tried to talk me out of the divorce after I already made the decision. He told me I was making a mistake among

[00:37:30] [SPEAKER_00] other bullshit during that time period. I needed the most reassurance and support. So yeah, I'm not sure what that friendship is at the moment. Honestly, I haven't had the energy to care to try and address anything or talk with them. So I guess I'm wondering any thoughts on it, if I should bother addressing it or I should just cut them off. I appreciate any advice. A commenter says to OP, your ex moved you into the furniture category. The status where you only help out with her living needs, like pay for her and clean the bathroom. The funny things,

[00:37:59] [SPEAKER_00] she was keeping for the others, including the other cleaning. Good riddance, man. Go on with your life and ignore the friends telling you you're making a mistake. You've been listening to your ex hallucinating a bit too much. OP says truly, I was just convenient and helpful, but not someone she really wanted to be with. And yeah, it was kind of crazy to get that response from my friend. He knew about things for a long time and was supportive of the idea until something just changed.

[00:38:25] [SPEAKER_00] Another commenter says, oh man, proud of you for getting out and cutting the toxic people out. Just need some additional info if you're okay sharing it. One, what was her reaction when you divorced her? Two, is she still in a party phase or settled in another relationship? OP says, well, divorce was something we talked about for a long time. So it wasn't some big, dramatic, unexpected moment for me to share, unfortunately. She accepted it. I think she was on the same page and tired of arguing about this anyway. Not too sure. No relationship that

[00:38:53] [SPEAKER_00] I know of. I think she's trying to move somewhere new. Commenter asks, how long did it take you to realize and decide that divorce would be best? Was there a specific moment? Glad you all don't have kids. Hope things improve greatly for you. OP says I know, I was definitely so thankful to not have kids. It would have made things even harder. I don't know if there was a specific moment. It was just a build up over time of her behavior never changing in the way I needed. I kept believing that maybe she would wake up and snap out of it. I think one big event is when things started to slide

[00:39:23] [SPEAKER_00] backwards in how she felt about the infidelity. When she changed from agreeing that it was an affair to claiming she was a victim in this situation. It made it clear that we were too far apart on everything. It felt like she was inching towards me before, but this was running the other way. And one more commenter says to OP, hey friend, sounds like your buddy isn't being much of a buddy right now. It might be worth a quick conversation to at least gain understanding. You could mention how you were looking for support and how your friend instead pushed you in the opposite direction.

[00:39:52] [SPEAKER_00] Maybe there's a reason your friend was being that way that isn't rooted in dishonesty or malice. But of course, if they refuse to talk or open up, or they in fact meant to cause harm, I'm afraid you should consider ending the friendship. I know that it may seem like things are falling apart and in a way they are. But put a mental bookmark in your mind to keep this fresh. In time, you'll see that while this stuff really sucks, you're shedding all the shitty people from your life and you're gaining understanding, confidence and growing as a person.

[00:40:20] [SPEAKER_00] There's lots of awesome folks out there to befriend and some that will make awesome romantic partners. Your people are out there just waiting for you. Some with a great heart like yourself will find the awesome folks you deserve to have in your life. Keep on doing what you're doing now and eventually you'll find yourself in a much better situation with people you can truly relate with and trust. I know things aren't great right now and it's hard to find hope while going through such things. But I promise you, one day you will look back and think about this being a time of growth that allowed

[00:40:49] [SPEAKER_00] you to set better boundaries and find better people to share your life with. You are never alone. I wish you the best. Good luck to your friend. What an absolutely lovely comment but OP came in replying to that saying thank you for the thoughtful reply. I appreciate the effort and I know you're right. It feels weird how little control I once felt I had over my life. This sounds ridiculous to have to realize but I get to choose and do whatever I want with it. And a lot of people saying how frustrated they were watching it because it was clear from

[00:41:19] [SPEAKER_00] the very start what was going on. But I also get why OP stayed as long as he did because like we see in a lot of these stories, when you're in it, it's not as black and white as people make it sound. They were married young and had built their whole life together. And he genuinely trusted her and believed that he said at the very start she would never do that. There wasn't one big obvious moment and it was a slow build of small boundary crossings that she almost gaslit him to make it sound like

[00:41:45] [SPEAKER_00] this is normal, this is okay. Add in the fact that he clearly loved her, didn't want to be the bad guy and kept hoping things would go back to how they used to be. And I know a lot of people will go down the whole doormat route but you know I'm never too keen on that take. I know sometimes it's appropriate but life is never that clean is it? People aren't robots, they aren't instantly making the right decisions the moment something goes wrong. When you're in a long-term relationship, especially in marriage, you don't just switch off your feelings and walk away at the first sign of

[00:42:13] [SPEAKER_00] trouble. He wasn't staying because he's weak, he's staying because he loved her, he believed what they had, he kept hoping things would go back to how they used to be and he didn't want to blow up his entire life unless he was absolutely sure and he needed reassurance from others to make sure of that because he was in his little bubble. So as always from the outside it's really obvious but from the inside it's probably messy, emotional and just full of fucking doubt. But what do you guys make of this

[00:42:40] [SPEAKER_00] situation? Let us know your thoughts down in the comments below. Now just a huge thank you for being here today, getting involved in the stories, your love, your support, your time, it always means the absolute world to me. So thank you so so much for being here, truly it's absolutely amazing and hopefully I'm going to see you in the next one. Take care and much love.